Boldness and Zeal are not fruits of the Spirit. I understand what you're getting at, but those are not listed. And I don't think this is dependent on translation, because none of the fruits are even closely related to that.
The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
Ryker, maybe you should see boldness in the same light as courageous and being strong. Walking by faith requires us to be bold as opposed to be fearfilled. Read Acts 28:31, Acts 4:31, 2 Corinthians 3:12 and many more. The fruit you refer to is the result of Christians walking boldly by faith, in righteousness, bringing hope, love, joy...
I get what you're saying, and I agree. Boldness and zeal are good characteristics of a faithful follower of Jesus, but the author was directly saying that they are fruits of the spirit. Calling them "fruits of the spirit" directly references the verse in Galatians, which doesn't list them.
I think you could classify them under 'self-control' as knowing when and when not to exhibit boldness and zealotry, but they are still not explicitly listed. That's my only issue with the quote in the article; it incorrectly adds elements to a well-known verse in scripture. Just seemed unnecessary and misleading.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. What do you mean by "inspired books?"
Jesus did those things, but he did them to the religious leaders, not to the sinners who came to Him for salvation, healing or help.
Preachers like you love to drive people from Christ. You condemn sinners while ignoring your own sin. You refuse grace to others, and will not receive it yourself. (Matt. 23:13)
You are the pharisee he spoke against in Matthew 23.
"Boldness, zeal and a willingness to contend for the faith" Are not fruit of the Spirit. Look it up.
Oh my goodness, "Preachers like you love to drive people from Christ". I am wondering if you realize what you just said? He is not talking about being strong (condemning) toward sinners, he is talking about being tough against false teaching, false beliefs and wolves. And, sometimes we must be 'firm with love' with sinners who think they are not sinners because they think themselves such nice and knowledgable people. Acts 20:28 tells men to be on Guard and protect the flock...not only from bad religious leaders as you say BUT from the wolves WITHIN the flock who pose as sheep...and there are many if you take time to really look. My Pastor wrote a book on this: 'Counter Culture'...there is a huge difference between Following Christ and today's 'christianity'! Leading a men's ministry at my church I have seen marriages collapsing because men, even though they were perceived by many as 'good men', were weak and didn't take a leadership role and their wives took the leadership role...just like in Genesis. Men are to Lead bravely, boldly but with LOVE. Eph.5:25 tells us to lay down our lives for our wives like Jesus did for His Church, but He didn't say let them lead you around with a nose ring. Examine Eph. 5:22-33 is the perfect laid out plan for marriage. My wife is a very strong leader where she is designed to lead (with other women and children) and I praise God for the times she leads. She knows and does things that I would never think of...because she is led by the Holy Spirit. We are partners (equals) TOGETHER as we serve the Lord, but she still looks to me to lead...even when she is leading because I am her protector, especially when she is leading within the flock. From the author: "Jesus is Gentle with the Broken and Fierce against the Wolves. Patient with Sinners and Relentless against Sin."
Oh my goodness, "Preachers like you love to drive people from Christ". I am wondering if you realize what you just said?
(Yes, thats why I said it.)
He is not talking about being strong (condemning) toward sinners, he is talking about being tough against false teaching, false beliefs and wolves.
(Don’t care what he thinks he’s talking about.)
And, sometimes we must be 'firm with love' with sinners who think they are not sinners because they think themselves such nice and knowledgable people.
(Sinners like you?)
Acts 20:28 tells men to be on Guard and protect the flock...not only from bad religious leaders as you say BUT from the wolves WITHIN the flock who pose as sheep...and there are many if you take time to really look.
(The verse says nothing about wolves. You are a liar. It says feed the flock. Thats it.)
My Pastor wrote a book on this: 'Counter Culture'...there is a huge difference between Following Christ and today's 'christianity'!
(Don’t care about your pastor.)
Leading a men's ministry at my church
(Turn around and I’ll pat you on the back)
I have seen marriages collapsing because men, even though they were perceived by many as 'good men', were weak and didn't take a leadership role and their wives took the leadership role...just like in Genesis.
(Just like your false interpretation of Genesis?)
Men are to Lead bravely, boldly but with LOVE.
(Sure. Just like you lead your wife i assume?)
Eph.5:25 tells us to lay down our lives for our wives like Jesus did for His Church, but He didn't say let them lead you around with a nose ring.
(How did we get here? Are you trying to propose to me?)
Examine Eph. 5:22-33 is the perfect laid out plan for marriage.
(Is that why so many Christian marriages fail?)
My wife is a very strong leader where she is designed to lead (with other women and children) and I praise God for the times she leads.
(Be careful. You might become a feminist.)
She knows and does things that I would never think of...because she is led by the Holy Spirit. We are partners (equals) TOGETHER as we serve the Lord, but she still looks to me to lead...even when she is leading because I am her protector, especially when she is leading within the flock. From the author: "Jesus is Gentle with the Broken and Fierce against the Wolves. Patient with Sinners and Relentless against Sin."
(I have no idea why you went off on a rant about marriage and how you keep your wife in check. But, I’m glad you got it worked out.)
Wow, not surprised at your comments. I suppose you think your thoughts about my reply are gentle like Jesus...NOT, you must enjoy putting people down with your perceived wisdom! Try reading the book Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray.
The fruits of the spirit are markers of a person that has submitted to God. But they aren’t the ONLY markers. And those are held specifically in contrast to desires of the flesh starting in Gal 5:19 of sexual immorality, sensuality, idolatry, fits of anger, etc. There are many scriptures that instruct us defend the faith with boldness and confront evil. Jesus Christ isn’t a buffet. You don’t get to pick and choose the parts you like.
I don’t think you should let me add to God’s word. (Which I did not. In fact I left out a multitude of sins that Paul warns us about). I think you should defend the scripture with boldness, zeal, and a willingness to contend for the faith.
Were not those leaders also sinners in need of salvation, healing, and help?
Christ is many things, as not everyone needs the same sort of medicine. Some people need bitter medicine, and some soothing. We all need Jesus, which is why he is all of the things we may need, as we need them. We are called to emulate Christ, meaning we need to be for others what they need. Sometimes that's gentle, such as the woman caught in adultery, and sometimes that's harsh, such as the Pharisees.
Consider how Christ rebuked Peter in the Garden: this was not because he opposed rebuking in principle, but rather because Peter had not acted out of love.
You call him a Pharisee but the Pharisees were the ones who set aside the clear commands of God in order to observe their own cultural traditions. That is exactly what the modern seeker sensitive church does when it softens the Gospel to avoid offending the culture.
That’s nice but it flies square in the face of what Christ actually taught us to do.
I would also like to see some sources for your claims about Greek πραυς- words. I can’t seem to find a single corroborating citation from antiquity besides possibly Xenophon. Besides the fact that he wrote centuries before the gospels were penned (words change meaning over time) he’s not using πραυς the way you seem to think. Did you get this from JP? He’s famously wrong on this.
Being that Jesus is alluding to psalm 37 when he says blessed are the meek, he was likely saying something more along the lines of the Hebrew *’anǐ* which means more straightforwardly, “needy, poor, lowly, weak” and not merely “gentle”.
Importantly, no where does the usage of πραυς in the gospels indicate the discipline of sheathed swords or deadly horses. The early church martyrs certainly never understood it that way…
I encourage you to do better, and maybe invest in a classic education worthy of the title of your Substack. Please avoid plagiarizing bad scholarship simply because it validates your feelings. I will be praying for you.
What a breath of fresh air. Too many Christians have molded themselves into this passive, pushover mentality, including women. Boldness in the face of evil IS necessary.
I find myself discussing this with alot of people. People have the assumption that Christ was gentle and meek ALL the time, when infact he was a revolutionary who often shook the Roman Empire, Pharisees and other established systems to the core. After all: Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Gentle Jesus is not just killing Christian Masculinity. Gentle Jesus is killing Christianity.
I attended Sunday service in a new church last Sunday, a more accepting anglican minster in the UK.
There was only 4 people in the pews for candlemas. Four in attendance.
A priest was not even present, instead the church wardens read out passages about how we should be apologetic as people for our sins, and feel sorry for ourselves and make it known.
Young men want direction and inspiration not woeful repentant preaching from old suicidally empathetic women.
I don't know man. That little cord that Jesus put together drove out the animals. He didn't whip people. When we don't rightly discern the word of God we come up with conclusions that sound biblical but really are just projections of our inner insecurities.
I had a similar experience in my marriage. My wife was a feminist, and basically, I was too. In a way, I was hiding behind her, relying on her leadership. When things went wrong, I had to stand up for the family in a prideful manner. Which, as pride does, makes matters worse.
Upon being saved, we were both confronted with our marriage and how our roles were completely out of alignment with God's design.
Since then, our marriage has been so much better. She feels safe, and I feel like the man I'm meant to be. As my wife likes to say, "It's easy to submit to a man who submits himself to Christ."
I think right-wing Christians are exaggerating the manliness of the Jesus of the Gospel. He is described as a man of profound meekness, forgiveness, and kindness. The temple scene and an off-hand comment about buying a sword don’t change that. His greatest triumph is described as being an act of profound submission, not conquest or imposition of his will.
I appreciate what you’re writing. Too many have emasculated Jesus. He was gentle to the sinners and tough as nails to those who were twisting and perverting the words of the Lord God Almighty. He gave grace to the sinners (still does) and sat with them. But then he said “Follow me” and started walking. He preached repentance, crucifying your flesh, and carrying your cross as points to illustrate cutting sin out of your life, not excusing it away. What you’re saying is true and it breaks my heart to see so many divisive comments. Keep doing what you’re doing!
If your “meek” Jesus requires you to defend or justify —with human wisdom— the cleansing of the temple, the cursing of the fig tree, or Jesus’ harsh words against the Pharisees, you’ve lost the plot and have created a false Jesus in your head.
Every mile of road has two miles of ditch. Passivity is one of those ditches. But we can over correct and land in the other without discernment. We can take verses like "Act Like Men" out-of-context and create a chest-thumping culture. This causes us to spit out the bit, surrender meekness, and resist God's yoke.
In most of the passages where he is publicly engaging with the Pharisees, Jesus is basically chest-poking them and unabashedly pointing out their wrong interpretations or misuse of scripture. I imagine that these would have been contentious moments that ended with hard feelings instead of squishy niceness. He took a strong stance for the sake of his love for the Father and his people.
Since he frequently engaged with fishermen, tax collectors, and prostitutes, I take this to mean that he was comfortable conversing with rougher types of people and was real enough to have them take him seriously. He would have stood strong in God's truths and not acquiesced to compromised values just to make people feel good.
Moreover, Jewish society of that time probably wouldn't have received what he was saying if he had been a weak or effeminate man. The Father sent his Son and he would have been a good Son (and therefore a good man) because of his love for his Father.
You're on to something here. Lest we forget, the lack of righteous anger (and that's the challenging each of us have: discerning whether our anger is borne of righteousness or a disordered ego, i.e., pride) upon seeing/experiencing that which is a clear injustice, the sin of another that clearly/directly affects another/others, etc., is likewise a sin. What one does upon confronting such a circumstance is something each of us has to work out for ourselves, of course. But the "Gentle Jesus" dynamic is, at best, horseshit, at worst, wicked. Godspeed.
Thomas Aquinas teaches in the Summa Theologica (II–II, q.33, a.2–4) that failing to correct wrongdoing out of fear of upsetting others can be a vice opposed to fortitude, not an act of true charity: he writes that fraternal correction is an act of love ordered to another’s spiritual good, and when someone withholds it merely to avoid conflict or personal discomfort, this restraint stems from fear rather than virtue. Aquinas distinguishes genuine gentleness — which moderates how correction is given — from a counterfeit kindness that masks cowardice, arguing that charity requires courage to seek another’s good even at personal cost; yet he equally insists correction must be measured, humble, and aimed at healing, so that fortitude strengthens love rather than
I wish we Christians could learn how to discuss instead of argue these points. We seem to forget non-believers are watching.
I agree with the essay but I also believe it is lopsided. Jesus was both bold and compassionate. Those of us from honor/shame cultures often recognize Jesus in the Bible. What we don't recognize is a Jesus that emphasizes the western values of individualism, capitalism and relativism. Context is everything and Jesus lived in a time when honor/shame cultures were dominant.
We dont like to admit that he was bold and compassionate because our modern times frames this as compromise and many churches are one or the other. To be both in a multiethnic church like mine is a challenge but we believe it is biblical.
The proof he was both can be seen in the motley crew Jesus choose. They exhibited extreme boldness. We see it in the New Testament. But their boldness and zeal also had to be checked with compassion:
1. Jesus forgave Peter after he betrayed him.
2. Jesus did not BBQ the Samaritans like James and John wanted to.
3. Jesus kept Judas in the fold knowing he would betray him.
4. When the disciples tried to protect Jesus, he still ministered to people.
5. When Jesus' family tried to shut him down, he said whoever does the will of my Father is my family.
6. Apostle Paul in prison still writing to his churches about hope, faith and salvation.
Peter was called Cephas (Rock) and James and John were called Sons of Thunder. Yet their boldness still got them in trouble because they forgot why Jesus came. Honor/Shame cultures are more punitive than compassionate which is why Jesus was killed.
To be in an honor/shame culture spending time with lepers, the lame, the blind and the paralyzed is to be associated with them. This would have embarrassed Jesus and his family. The Beautitudes are full of compassion which was not a valued trait in honor/shame cultures.
So, I do not agree with the gentle Jesus. I agree with a bold compassionate Jesus who turned the honor/shame system on its head with the Beautitudes, who took on Satan in the wilderness and won AND who conquered death.
Boldness and Zeal are not fruits of the Spirit. I understand what you're getting at, but those are not listed. And I don't think this is dependent on translation, because none of the fruits are even closely related to that.
The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
I think you are missing the point here
Ryker, maybe you should see boldness in the same light as courageous and being strong. Walking by faith requires us to be bold as opposed to be fearfilled. Read Acts 28:31, Acts 4:31, 2 Corinthians 3:12 and many more. The fruit you refer to is the result of Christians walking boldly by faith, in righteousness, bringing hope, love, joy...
I get what you're saying, and I agree. Boldness and zeal are good characteristics of a faithful follower of Jesus, but the author was directly saying that they are fruits of the spirit. Calling them "fruits of the spirit" directly references the verse in Galatians, which doesn't list them.
I think you could classify them under 'self-control' as knowing when and when not to exhibit boldness and zealotry, but they are still not explicitly listed. That's my only issue with the quote in the article; it incorrectly adds elements to a well-known verse in scripture. Just seemed unnecessary and misleading.
I absolutely agree with what you're saying.
Fruits of the spirit doesn't have to necessarily refer to the 'official' listed ones, it can mean another product of the Spirit.
You forgot enablement. Love is not some mushy emotion, joy is not mere happiness etc.
Jesus is coming back with a sword in revelation so clearly there is more to the picture yes?
As always, what’s missing is the context of the Bible that actually illuminates what Jesus said: https://amongthegods.substack.com/p/say-to-this-mountain-casting-widespread?r=6t91l5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Maybe if inspired books hadn’t been removed from your Bible you wouldn’t spread such ignorance.
What are you referring to?
The list comes from Galatians 5:22-23:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. What do you mean by "inspired books?"
Your foundation is wrong.
Jesus did those things, but he did them to the religious leaders, not to the sinners who came to Him for salvation, healing or help.
Preachers like you love to drive people from Christ. You condemn sinners while ignoring your own sin. You refuse grace to others, and will not receive it yourself. (Matt. 23:13)
You are the pharisee he spoke against in Matthew 23.
"Boldness, zeal and a willingness to contend for the faith" Are not fruit of the Spirit. Look it up.
Oh my goodness, "Preachers like you love to drive people from Christ". I am wondering if you realize what you just said? He is not talking about being strong (condemning) toward sinners, he is talking about being tough against false teaching, false beliefs and wolves. And, sometimes we must be 'firm with love' with sinners who think they are not sinners because they think themselves such nice and knowledgable people. Acts 20:28 tells men to be on Guard and protect the flock...not only from bad religious leaders as you say BUT from the wolves WITHIN the flock who pose as sheep...and there are many if you take time to really look. My Pastor wrote a book on this: 'Counter Culture'...there is a huge difference between Following Christ and today's 'christianity'! Leading a men's ministry at my church I have seen marriages collapsing because men, even though they were perceived by many as 'good men', were weak and didn't take a leadership role and their wives took the leadership role...just like in Genesis. Men are to Lead bravely, boldly but with LOVE. Eph.5:25 tells us to lay down our lives for our wives like Jesus did for His Church, but He didn't say let them lead you around with a nose ring. Examine Eph. 5:22-33 is the perfect laid out plan for marriage. My wife is a very strong leader where she is designed to lead (with other women and children) and I praise God for the times she leads. She knows and does things that I would never think of...because she is led by the Holy Spirit. We are partners (equals) TOGETHER as we serve the Lord, but she still looks to me to lead...even when she is leading because I am her protector, especially when she is leading within the flock. From the author: "Jesus is Gentle with the Broken and Fierce against the Wolves. Patient with Sinners and Relentless against Sin."
You said,
Oh my goodness, "Preachers like you love to drive people from Christ". I am wondering if you realize what you just said?
(Yes, thats why I said it.)
He is not talking about being strong (condemning) toward sinners, he is talking about being tough against false teaching, false beliefs and wolves.
(Don’t care what he thinks he’s talking about.)
And, sometimes we must be 'firm with love' with sinners who think they are not sinners because they think themselves such nice and knowledgable people.
(Sinners like you?)
Acts 20:28 tells men to be on Guard and protect the flock...not only from bad religious leaders as you say BUT from the wolves WITHIN the flock who pose as sheep...and there are many if you take time to really look.
(The verse says nothing about wolves. You are a liar. It says feed the flock. Thats it.)
My Pastor wrote a book on this: 'Counter Culture'...there is a huge difference between Following Christ and today's 'christianity'!
(Don’t care about your pastor.)
Leading a men's ministry at my church
(Turn around and I’ll pat you on the back)
I have seen marriages collapsing because men, even though they were perceived by many as 'good men', were weak and didn't take a leadership role and their wives took the leadership role...just like in Genesis.
(Just like your false interpretation of Genesis?)
Men are to Lead bravely, boldly but with LOVE.
(Sure. Just like you lead your wife i assume?)
Eph.5:25 tells us to lay down our lives for our wives like Jesus did for His Church, but He didn't say let them lead you around with a nose ring.
(How did we get here? Are you trying to propose to me?)
Examine Eph. 5:22-33 is the perfect laid out plan for marriage.
(Is that why so many Christian marriages fail?)
My wife is a very strong leader where she is designed to lead (with other women and children) and I praise God for the times she leads.
(Be careful. You might become a feminist.)
She knows and does things that I would never think of...because she is led by the Holy Spirit. We are partners (equals) TOGETHER as we serve the Lord, but she still looks to me to lead...even when she is leading because I am her protector, especially when she is leading within the flock. From the author: "Jesus is Gentle with the Broken and Fierce against the Wolves. Patient with Sinners and Relentless against Sin."
(I have no idea why you went off on a rant about marriage and how you keep your wife in check. But, I’m glad you got it worked out.)
Wow, not surprised at your comments. I suppose you think your thoughts about my reply are gentle like Jesus...NOT, you must enjoy putting people down with your perceived wisdom! Try reading the book Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray.
The fruits of the spirit are markers of a person that has submitted to God. But they aren’t the ONLY markers. And those are held specifically in contrast to desires of the flesh starting in Gal 5:19 of sexual immorality, sensuality, idolatry, fits of anger, etc. There are many scriptures that instruct us defend the faith with boldness and confront evil. Jesus Christ isn’t a buffet. You don’t get to pick and choose the parts you like.
The fruit of the Spirit is spelled out. Why are you adding to God’s Word?
I’m not picking and choosing anything. But, I’m not going to let you add to God’s Word.
I don’t think you should let me add to God’s word. (Which I did not. In fact I left out a multitude of sins that Paul warns us about). I think you should defend the scripture with boldness, zeal, and a willingness to contend for the faith.
“I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.” — Jude 1:3
Were not those leaders also sinners in need of salvation, healing, and help?
Christ is many things, as not everyone needs the same sort of medicine. Some people need bitter medicine, and some soothing. We all need Jesus, which is why he is all of the things we may need, as we need them. We are called to emulate Christ, meaning we need to be for others what they need. Sometimes that's gentle, such as the woman caught in adultery, and sometimes that's harsh, such as the Pharisees.
Consider how Christ rebuked Peter in the Garden: this was not because he opposed rebuking in principle, but rather because Peter had not acted out of love.
You call him a Pharisee but the Pharisees were the ones who set aside the clear commands of God in order to observe their own cultural traditions. That is exactly what the modern seeker sensitive church does when it softens the Gospel to avoid offending the culture.
The Gospel is not softened by treating people with decency and respect.
What does that have to do with what I said?
That’s nice but it flies square in the face of what Christ actually taught us to do.
I would also like to see some sources for your claims about Greek πραυς- words. I can’t seem to find a single corroborating citation from antiquity besides possibly Xenophon. Besides the fact that he wrote centuries before the gospels were penned (words change meaning over time) he’s not using πραυς the way you seem to think. Did you get this from JP? He’s famously wrong on this.
Being that Jesus is alluding to psalm 37 when he says blessed are the meek, he was likely saying something more along the lines of the Hebrew *’anǐ* which means more straightforwardly, “needy, poor, lowly, weak” and not merely “gentle”.
Importantly, no where does the usage of πραυς in the gospels indicate the discipline of sheathed swords or deadly horses. The early church martyrs certainly never understood it that way…
I encourage you to do better, and maybe invest in a classic education worthy of the title of your Substack. Please avoid plagiarizing bad scholarship simply because it validates your feelings. I will be praying for you.
Almost good but kinda pompous.
Praying for you as well friend.
What a breath of fresh air. Too many Christians have molded themselves into this passive, pushover mentality, including women. Boldness in the face of evil IS necessary.
What’s even more necessary is understanding the context in which Jesus wrote: https://amongthegods.substack.com/p/say-to-this-mountain-casting-widespread?r=6t91l5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I find myself discussing this with alot of people. People have the assumption that Christ was gentle and meek ALL the time, when infact he was a revolutionary who often shook the Roman Empire, Pharisees and other established systems to the core. After all: Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
It continues in the following verses.
As it is written:
“35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.”
Matthew 10:35-39, KJV
Yes, and what is missing is the context in which Jesus meant that he would “bring a sword”. We are all so detached from the grand bible story: https://amongthegods.substack.com/p/say-to-this-mountain-casting-widespread?r=6t91l5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Gentle Jesus is not just killing Christian Masculinity. Gentle Jesus is killing Christianity.
I attended Sunday service in a new church last Sunday, a more accepting anglican minster in the UK.
There was only 4 people in the pews for candlemas. Four in attendance.
A priest was not even present, instead the church wardens read out passages about how we should be apologetic as people for our sins, and feel sorry for ourselves and make it known.
Young men want direction and inspiration not woeful repentant preaching from old suicidally empathetic women.
Lol 100%
Yes! What is needed is a new engagement with the actual grand story of the Bible, which illuminates what Jesus truly meant! https://amongthegods.substack.com/p/say-to-this-mountain-casting-widespread?r=6t91l5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I don't know man. That little cord that Jesus put together drove out the animals. He didn't whip people. When we don't rightly discern the word of God we come up with conclusions that sound biblical but really are just projections of our inner insecurities.
Absolutely. And what empowers this is not being aware of the background story that illuminates what Jesus actually means: https://amongthegods.substack.com/p/say-to-this-mountain-casting-widespread?r=6t91l5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I'm feeling your fire in this article.
I had a similar experience in my marriage. My wife was a feminist, and basically, I was too. In a way, I was hiding behind her, relying on her leadership. When things went wrong, I had to stand up for the family in a prideful manner. Which, as pride does, makes matters worse.
Upon being saved, we were both confronted with our marriage and how our roles were completely out of alignment with God's design.
Since then, our marriage has been so much better. She feels safe, and I feel like the man I'm meant to be. As my wife likes to say, "It's easy to submit to a man who submits himself to Christ."
I think right-wing Christians are exaggerating the manliness of the Jesus of the Gospel. He is described as a man of profound meekness, forgiveness, and kindness. The temple scene and an off-hand comment about buying a sword don’t change that. His greatest triumph is described as being an act of profound submission, not conquest or imposition of his will.
I appreciate what you’re writing. Too many have emasculated Jesus. He was gentle to the sinners and tough as nails to those who were twisting and perverting the words of the Lord God Almighty. He gave grace to the sinners (still does) and sat with them. But then he said “Follow me” and started walking. He preached repentance, crucifying your flesh, and carrying your cross as points to illustrate cutting sin out of your life, not excusing it away. What you’re saying is true and it breaks my heart to see so many divisive comments. Keep doing what you’re doing!
But the grander Bible story is still missing! https://amongthegods.substack.com/p/say-to-this-mountain-casting-widespread?r=6t91l5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
If your “meek” Jesus requires you to defend or justify —with human wisdom— the cleansing of the temple, the cursing of the fig tree, or Jesus’ harsh words against the Pharisees, you’ve lost the plot and have created a false Jesus in your head.
I know right, people like to cherry pick what version of Jesus they want to follow!
Every mile of road has two miles of ditch. Passivity is one of those ditches. But we can over correct and land in the other without discernment. We can take verses like "Act Like Men" out-of-context and create a chest-thumping culture. This causes us to spit out the bit, surrender meekness, and resist God's yoke.
I welcome feedback on this post, as well.
https://operationmustardseed.substack.com/p/tracing-masculinity
“Two miles of ditch”
Sorry Ryan, but I’m going to have to steal this.
😎
I think you're absolutely correct.
In most of the passages where he is publicly engaging with the Pharisees, Jesus is basically chest-poking them and unabashedly pointing out their wrong interpretations or misuse of scripture. I imagine that these would have been contentious moments that ended with hard feelings instead of squishy niceness. He took a strong stance for the sake of his love for the Father and his people.
Since he frequently engaged with fishermen, tax collectors, and prostitutes, I take this to mean that he was comfortable conversing with rougher types of people and was real enough to have them take him seriously. He would have stood strong in God's truths and not acquiesced to compromised values just to make people feel good.
Moreover, Jewish society of that time probably wouldn't have received what he was saying if he had been a weak or effeminate man. The Father sent his Son and he would have been a good Son (and therefore a good man) because of his love for his Father.
You're on to something here. Lest we forget, the lack of righteous anger (and that's the challenging each of us have: discerning whether our anger is borne of righteousness or a disordered ego, i.e., pride) upon seeing/experiencing that which is a clear injustice, the sin of another that clearly/directly affects another/others, etc., is likewise a sin. What one does upon confronting such a circumstance is something each of us has to work out for ourselves, of course. But the "Gentle Jesus" dynamic is, at best, horseshit, at worst, wicked. Godspeed.
Thomas Aquinas teaches in the Summa Theologica (II–II, q.33, a.2–4) that failing to correct wrongdoing out of fear of upsetting others can be a vice opposed to fortitude, not an act of true charity: he writes that fraternal correction is an act of love ordered to another’s spiritual good, and when someone withholds it merely to avoid conflict or personal discomfort, this restraint stems from fear rather than virtue. Aquinas distinguishes genuine gentleness — which moderates how correction is given — from a counterfeit kindness that masks cowardice, arguing that charity requires courage to seek another’s good even at personal cost; yet he equally insists correction must be measured, humble, and aimed at healing, so that fortitude strengthens love rather than
I wish we Christians could learn how to discuss instead of argue these points. We seem to forget non-believers are watching.
I agree with the essay but I also believe it is lopsided. Jesus was both bold and compassionate. Those of us from honor/shame cultures often recognize Jesus in the Bible. What we don't recognize is a Jesus that emphasizes the western values of individualism, capitalism and relativism. Context is everything and Jesus lived in a time when honor/shame cultures were dominant.
We dont like to admit that he was bold and compassionate because our modern times frames this as compromise and many churches are one or the other. To be both in a multiethnic church like mine is a challenge but we believe it is biblical.
The proof he was both can be seen in the motley crew Jesus choose. They exhibited extreme boldness. We see it in the New Testament. But their boldness and zeal also had to be checked with compassion:
1. Jesus forgave Peter after he betrayed him.
2. Jesus did not BBQ the Samaritans like James and John wanted to.
3. Jesus kept Judas in the fold knowing he would betray him.
4. When the disciples tried to protect Jesus, he still ministered to people.
5. When Jesus' family tried to shut him down, he said whoever does the will of my Father is my family.
6. Apostle Paul in prison still writing to his churches about hope, faith and salvation.
Peter was called Cephas (Rock) and James and John were called Sons of Thunder. Yet their boldness still got them in trouble because they forgot why Jesus came. Honor/Shame cultures are more punitive than compassionate which is why Jesus was killed.
To be in an honor/shame culture spending time with lepers, the lame, the blind and the paralyzed is to be associated with them. This would have embarrassed Jesus and his family. The Beautitudes are full of compassion which was not a valued trait in honor/shame cultures.
So, I do not agree with the gentle Jesus. I agree with a bold compassionate Jesus who turned the honor/shame system on its head with the Beautitudes, who took on Satan in the wilderness and won AND who conquered death.